Citizens of Indiana House District 69 were presented with two visions of Indiana’s future Wednesday night in a debate showdown between incumbent Jim Lucas, R-Seymour, and Democrat candidate Trish Whitcomb at Seymour High School.

With Election Day less than 38 days away, voters aren’t just tuning-in to the unprecedented presidential race between Democrat Vice President Kamala Harris and former Republican President Donald Trump, but local elections as well.

The District 69 candidates shared their positions on various topics such as education, healthcare, agriculture, leadership, housing and immigration.

Dan Robison, executive director of the Jackson County Chamber, and Arann Banks, executive director of the Jackson County Visitors Center, served as moderators for the debate.

The rules were simple, each candidate had two minutes to answer questions and one minute for rebuttals. No questions were shared with the candidates and with a win in a coin toss, Whitcomb elected to speak second about the first topic.

Also, each candidate had the opportunity to ask one question of the other and were given two minutes for an introduction and closing statement.

Lucas, who was first elected to the Indiana House in 2012, started the night off introducing himself and the importance the position places on the Constitution.

“We are all required to swear an oath to the Constitution,” he said. “It doesn’t care if you are Democrat or Republican, Black or white, rich or poor, gay or straight. It doesn’t differentiate because we are all the same.”

Whitcomb shared her experience working many years with the Indiana Department of Education and the experience she could bring to the position.

“I’ve learned the importance of hard work, integrity and standing up for what is right,” she said. “This community shaped me and that is why I am running now. I believe we need a leader who leads with compassion and delivers real results.”

Education

The night kicked off with the topic of education with the question, who should determine what public school teachers should and should not be teaching in the classroom?

Lucas said he prefers a “hands-off approach” allowing parents to have role in how and what their child is being taught. Lucas continued saying teachers can decide on material to a degree contingent upon whether the material is harmful or sexually explicit and is being taught outside of a certain age group.

“We did not ban books,” he said. “We took books that were not appropriate for the age of the material that was being taught.”

Indiana HB 1447 passed the General Assembly in the final days of the 2023 session banning “harmful materials” to minors from school libraries. Librarians who violate the law could be charged with a Level 6 felony and face up to two and a half years of jail time.

The law defines obscene material as appealing to prurient interest in sex, depicting or describing sexual conduct in an offensive way, or lacking serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. Librarians cannot use the book’s education value as a defense.

The American Library Association documented more than 4,200 unique book titles targeted for censorship in 2023. Of the 10 most challenged books in 2023, some were challenged for themes of race and racism, seven were challenged because they contained LGBTQ+ content and all were claimed to contain sexually explicit content.

Whitcomb took a different approach calling out the “watered down” licensing in Indiana and how it has impacted the classroom.

“When you have a situation where your educators are not well prepared it can have an impact in the classroom,” she said. “The input for parents is very important, but I think that input needs to be focused on their child and their progress.”

Whitcomb added she opposes standardized testing, saying it causes added stress on the educators and does not adequately inform school corporations on student’s learning progress.

To address teacher shortages, the legislature introduced a bill that would allow school districts to request emergency permits in a content area where they are experiencing difficulty staffing with a proper licensed educator.

The applicant must possess the minimum of a bachelor’s degree from an accredited university to be eligible and the permit is valid for one school year and can be renewed.

According to the Department of Education, the state employed more than 6,200 emergency licensed teachers in 2022-up about 1,700 from the year before. It’s now nearly 10% of licensed teachers in the state.

Candidates then addressed the challenges public school systems face as a population of students, which English is not their first language, has recently surged. Moderators asked to keep solutions Indiana lawmakers can support to the state and local level without bringing up immigration law and border security.

“We want everyone to speak English in our country and in our state,” Whitcomb said. “When we have dual-immersion where kids could learn two languages that’s a strong benefit to the community. The extra costs that may involve educating these kids it’s an investment we need to make.”

Whitcomb added the county needs immigrants and to not make fun of kids who can’t speak English.

“Let’s put in the effort of making everyone a productive and engaging member of society,” she said.

Lucas said at the state and local level lawmaker’s hands are tied due to federal policies that have been in place for the past few years, mentioning open borders.

After an audience interruption, Lucas said the total school enrollment at Seymour Community Schools is 5,400, 1,900 of those being English-learner students.

Superintendent Brandon Harpe later told The Tribune that the enrollment numbers are pretty close, but stated the school did not grow from last year and the English-Learner enrollment has been stable.

“It’s not just dual language we have multiple languages,” Lucas said. “Explain to me how one teacher can teach multiple different languages in an elementary school setting.”

A dual-immersion program was considered at Cortland Elementary School in March of this year where kindergarteners would have received bilingual education and learn content in the Spanish language. This program would have offset declining student enrollment at Cortland and provide opportunities for students to become bilingual. Due to parent concerns, the proposal was dropped by the school board in April.

“I support the parent’s right to choose their child’s education,” Lucas said in his rebuttal.

School safety

The conversation then moved to meaningful and actionable measures the candidates support to increase school safety across the state.

Lucas stated every school shooting in America has happened in a gun-free zone.

“A gun-free zone is nothing more than a place where people who obey gun laws are made easy victims for people who don’t,” he said.

This claim, however, is missing context. According to the Associated Press, a common claim that more than 90% of all mass shootings have happened in “gun-free zones” comes from a study by a gun rights advocacy group. The study draws from federal data on “active shooter” incidents, which is not the same as a mass shooting.

Lucas did mention House Enrolled Act 1177, passed in 2013, that allows Indiana schools to apply for state funding to train teachers and staff in firearm safety.

“We simply gave them the ability to defend themselves,” he said. “We have to have people there trained, armed and ready to mitigate.”

Whitcomb responded legislators have had ample opportunity to pass sensible gun safety laws including requirements for storage in households. Whitcomb recalled the recent incident that occurred at Crothersville High School where a student was arrested for making bomb threats.

“Stronger enforceable gun safety regulations regarding storage and responsibility of parents is the first thing I would do for school safety,” she said.

Lucas countered her statement saying additional laws will not stop crimes from being committed.

“I am not advocating for no gun safety laws, but I am pointing out that laws do not stop bad behavior,” he said. “If it did we wouldn’t have all of these crimes that are still being committed.”

Whitcomb added additional mental health assistance in schools is needed now more than ever.

Healthcare

The debate moved to the topic of healthcare and candidates were asked about creative approaches to health outcomes of a growing population of aging Hoosiers and affordable medication.

Lucas said Medicaid in Indiana is the largest growing line-item budget currently. Indiana spends about 11% of its budget on Medicaid, lower than the national average of 17%, according to a story from the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

“We are seeing growth that we can’t control,” he said. “We need to start getting people involved in their healthcare decisions such as eating healthier, exercising more and stop smoking.”

Whitcomb said more needs to be done about the lack of transparency of healthcare insurance regulations, saying that is why Indiana is ranked fifth in the nation for healthcare costs. According to a study conducted by the nonprofit policy think tank, RAND Corp. commercial hospital prices in Indiana rank eighth highest in the country.

Lucas said the state is limited to what it can do without violating federal codes, but offered a solution for the state to look at the purchasing power and corporations. He added drug prices have skyrocketed since companies have been able to advertise directly to consumers.

Whitcomb then brought up Senate Bill 8, which requires pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) to pass on rebates they receive from drug manufacturers to patients or insurance companies, a bill Lucas voted against at the time.

“For somebody who thinks individual choices in their healthcare is important to keep costs down that you would want to limit information consumers get about prescription drugs,” she said.

Agriculture

In regards to solar farms and warehouses being constructed on productive farm ground, Hoosier farmers have been utilizing new technology to increase yields. Candidates gave their opinions on the topic.

“If you want to sustain and protect farmland, we need to give farmers a predictable and certain amount of increase over time on property tax,” Whitcomb said. “So, they can keep their farmlands in production.”

“We worked hard to keep property taxes down, but we see them spike like we have in the last few years it poses a challenge,” Lucas said.

Leadership

The conversation moved to allegations of whether both candidates truly reside in District 69. Indiana Code states that a candidate for the office of representatives in the general assembly must “have lived” in the state for at least two years and “have lived” in the house district for at least one year.

Both candidates affirmed to the audience they legally reside within the boundaries of District 69.

In a follow-up question, Whitcomb said its important for the representative to live in the district so, they are involved in the community. She added, however, that she travels frequently to meetings in Indianapolis where her husband lives in a home they purchased.

“I live here and the reason I live here is because I want to help this community,” she said. “I didn’t move down here to run for State Rep., but I did decide to run in May of 2023.”

Lucas said he was born and raised in Seymour and that it’s important to live in the district they represent to know the needs of the community.

“They should be there for them and listen to what they have to say,” Lucas said. “Simple question to me.”

Housing

Tackling the topic of homelessness and affordable housing, candidates provided their opinions on how to address the issues.

“Minimum wage earners are the minority of our population,” Whitcomb said. “If that wage is raised, everyone else will get a raise. It will not kill jobs and we need to make sure all work is honored and paid adequately so, people can afford things.”

Lucas said “throwing money” at the problem will not help.

“Homelessness is a horrible issue, but we have to help people that want to help themselves,” he said. “Mental health is a big factor of this as well.”

Lucas said with the influx of people entering Seymour from outside of the state and country, multigenerational living is on the rise and driving up housing costs.

According to Pew Research Center, multigenerational living is a growing trend for a number of factors that include financial issues, lack of affordable housing and caregiving.

Multigenerational living is growing in part because groups that account for most recent overall population growth in the U.S., including foreign-born, Asian, Black and Hispanic Americans, are more likely to live with multiple generations under one roof. Multigenerational living, however, also is rising among non-Hispanic white Americans, who accounted for a share of the multigenerational household’s population growth from 2000 to 2021, 28%, than of total population growth, 9%.

There is no evidence to suggest multigenerational living is driving up housing costs, but actually can help families afford to buy or rent homes in expensive markets and reduce poverty.

Immigration

Moving on to the hot-button issue of legal and illegal immigration, candidates provided their opinions on how to support first responders and the path of driving certificates in response to the rapid influx.

“No problem has been solved pointing the finger,” Whitcomb said. “It takes a community to come together to pull resources and solve these problems. If we need more cops and EMTS that is a local matter for the city to decide.”

Lucas said police are funded by local property tax and there are two officers for every 1,000 residents.

“We don’t know how many people are living in Seymour,” he said. “The closest guess I can come up with is 34,000, basing off school population, which is more than what the Census says.”

As of 2022, the current population in Jackson County is 46,200 people, 95% of the population are citizens and 5.96% of the population are foreign-born residents, according to Census data. There is not much information of the current population of undocumented people in the county.

“Until we can get control over how many people actually live here and start taxing accordingly we are going to continue chasing our tail,” Lucas said.

Lucas added he is against providing driver certificates to residents who are undocumented.

“I do not want to reward people that come into our country illegally,” he said. “Just because they get a certificate does not mean they will get insurance.”

According to an article from The Daily Reporter in Greenfield, auto insurance rates have been consistently rising in double digits year-over-year since Sept. 2022. In July 2023, the most recent month for which data is available the increase from July was 18.6%.

Whitcomb said she is for giving people who are in the country legally a way to drive, access driver training courses, understands laws of the road and be insured.

Whitcomb added that whether immigrants are here to seek asylum, which are allowed to legally work in the U.S. after six months, or on an H-2A Agricultural Visa can work in the U.S.

“They all pay sales tax for everything they buy and pay into Social Security that they will never access,” she said. “It’s a benefit to have a group of employed newcomers in your district.”

According to the Associated Press, recent estimates put the figure of immigrants in the U.S. without authorization at about 11 million, though the figure could be slightly higher today given recent border crossings.

The Social Security Administration estimated in 2010, that such immigrants contribute $12 billion per year more to the Social Security system than they take out.

While immigrants in the country without authorization do not have Social Security numbers, they can file taxes using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or ITIN.

Questions

Reaching the end of the debate, candidates were able to ask a question of the other.

Whitcomb brought up House Speaker Todd Huston’s decision to not appoint Lucas to any interim study committees that convened in 2023 after he plead guilty to DUI crash misdemeanors. She asked Lucas how he would deliver to the community in a leadership position that he is severely compromised in.

“The media loves me I know and yes, I made the headlines,” he said going into various controversial social media posts he made in the past. “I did screw up last year and I accept 100% responsibility for it. The lesson I learned from that has made me a better person and leader for the rest of my life.”

Lucas asked Whitcomb if she thinks the path Indiana’s economy is on currently is sustainable and if taxpayers should pay more for extra programs she wants to establish.

“I am a fiscal conservative and want to follow in my dad’s footsteps,” she said. “He kept administrative costs down, cut the budget and did not raise taxes.”

After the debate, The Tribune spoke with each candidate, and both said it went well.

“People got to see two obvious choices of who they want to represent them,” Lucas said. “I am very confident because the principles that I stand for and upholding my oath to the Constitution will hold the government accountable to the taxpayer.”

“We are fortunate to have had the opportunity to speak to voters directly as not many legislators do,” Whitcomb said. “The voters have a very clear choice now after hearing myself and my opponent. I feel this may be a chance for a change in representation and our district wants and deserves that.”